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Actually, the additional details section disappeared over 2 years ago - July 2011.

So I don't think that section going away had anything to do with the new dashboard. My assumption is that it was removed for space and because that section was spammed to death.

In my training for a long time I have said to still add certain types of specific data there, because for awhile Google said she still looked at that section. But I don't believe that's true any longer. Plus any new listings will get the new dash and the update to the new dash is starting to escalate, so soon everyone will have it. So I just don't think it's worth the energy to populate that section now. If you already have it won't hurt as long as you don't violate any unwritten rules down there.

I just did consulting for a pretty sharp SEO that had a similar situation he could not figure out or overcome.

This very prominent restaurant ranked #1 in organic but was not in the carousel. It ranked I think 9 or so in maps, in a pretty big city - so did not appear to be penalized per se, but I could tell some things were holding it back that Google does not like.

After I did a deep dive and found some unwritten rules that could be tripping a filter and told him what to change his client jumped to a double #1, 2 weeks after he made the recommended changes.

Now he's #1 in carousel and still has the #1 organic as well.

So I'd do a deep and careful audit of the data in the dashboard.

Actually they are one in the same, just different names and there are several different products and updates, so G makes it really confusing.

The business owner side is still branded Places. In fact all the NEW branding for business owners to sign up and the brand new dashboard that is still rolling out is all called "Places for Business".

It's the consumer facing page, where a customer would leave a review that was rebranded as Google+ Local.

Then there is the Local Google+ page which is a totally different animal and it does not show up in search unless merged with the Place page/AKA G+ Local page - once it's merged there is no name for that one. I did a long post explaining all this with a funny "WTF do you call these pages again?" image. So convoluted!

Google is sort of redoing branding or should I say doing away with all the past branding though for local and it appears she's heading toward one page name. Everything will just be called a Google+ page. Then it's just a matter of whether you verify or merge to add the social features. But then again she's getting rid of most of the links so consumers can't even get to the G+ L whatever you call it page now anyway, so...

Yes the service area is set right AND that's why Google already automatically hid the address and it no longer shows live.

However hiding address does not get around the other violation. The address in dash must still be 'REAL'.

Business Location: Use a precise, accurate address to describe your business location.

• Do not create a listing or place your pin marker at a location where the business does not physically exist. P.O. Boxes are not considered accurate physical locations.

Note: when you change address you'll likely need to reverify, she'll likely have to start over in the 6 - 8 week ranking cycle and will possibly lose reviews. Same thing with correcting the name when you do that.

So re-doing to make this right can cause some problems which is why Miriam and both stress learning all the ins and outs so you can do it right the 1st time. Because Google is not very forgiving about making changes. But this is how we learn right? (Taking hard knocks and having to re-do stuff.)

Thanks Miriam!

One more thing I wanted to mention. The guidelines purposely do not spell everything out. They are VERY vague for a reason... so as not to give spammers and scammers an exact road map of what to avoid. But folks like Miriam and I, that help folks in the trenches after they have already gotten in trouble, often know about unwritten rules or where the line is drawn on vague guidelines.

I often ask Google management too where the real line is drawn or what a subtle guideline really means. Often the reality is very black and white, it's just written in a pale shade of gray.

Hi Jonathan,

I help SEOs all day long that broke the rules and got caught and their client pays the price. Some fight for months to get their listing back, so I am a bit of a purist about the rules because I know the damage breaking them can do.

UPS or Pak Mail type addresses are prohibited and not considered by Google a "real" business location.  Does not matter if she meets clients there.

Here is Google's thinking. (And I work with upper management with Google on a daily basis on cases like this, so I know for a fact.) If someone found her on a map, drove across town, walked into the Pak Mail would she be there?

Also does not matter if address is hidden. Google still sees address in dashboard. They can find out it's at Pak Mail just like I did (http://goo.gl/maps/Ikmu3) and then the listing is toast as mailing addresses are not allowed period.

Does not matter if people online that claim to be experts SAY it's OK to do add city or KW to name or if competitors show their address.

It's like if I told you "it's OK to park in that no parking zone - I do it all the time!"

IF YOU are the UNLUCKY ONE to get CAUGHT - neither the cop or Google will accept the excuse that "others do it and get away with it" OR "some blogger told me it was OK to do it."

Photogs are under high scrutiny so sometimes Google does an industry sweep of a city looking for violations. IF they catch that mailing address or KW stuffed name, you could be in trouble. And if they catch the competitors showing their address, they could be too.

Thanks Ruhul

"Some areas don't pop 7 packs at all for the same keywords."

I think it's mainly based on search volume. I can give you lots of examples but here's a good one.

I was consulting for an SEO I trained that was working for a roofing client. I told him he was wasting one of the Places categories because that key phrase didn't even pull a pack. He said "I learned well from your training and I KNOW I checked to be sure it pulled a pack! Turns out that was 3 months ago when he set up the listing. Also turns out that was the rainy season. So in that small town there were enough searches for that type of roof repair, but when the rain stopped that search volume dried up too!

So if your KWs are a little nichey for local OR competition is low OR you are dealing with fairly small towns, that could be why.

A good KW to test with is Sedation Dentistry, in larger cities it will pull a pack. In some smaller ones  - no pack.

Re: my AOL trick.  Did you see Dr. Pete's post today? http://moz.com/blog/how-does-google-count-local-results

I think my AOL trick is easier and I like StartPage even better for some things. But he found a way to pull pure organic with a Google search parameter - which is pretty cool. I need to find time to test and compare with my method this weekend but I think it's pulling the same results for all 3.

The local blended algo in the 7 pack is more about organic ranking factors. Claiming, filling out, # or reviews and citations does not matter as much as organic does.

I just did a huge post about it showing how you can research and see this and how to do competitive analysis to see why whos at the top of the 7 pack is really there.

But additionally new Place pages can take 6 - 8 weeks to fully work into the local database. So if you recently pin verified you won't show in local at all for KW searches and will only show on maps for direct phone or name+ city searches.

Wanted to let you know you have major violations that could get you suspended. So you may be suffering from a ranking penalty.

Your listing says your business name is "austin's photojennette wedding photography". You can't add city or keywords to your name. Must be name only.

Also Google hid your address due to being a home business. In the past instead of hiding your address they would just delete your listing for violating that guideline, so this is better. Hidden address does not hurt your ranking.

Actually the current blended local algo - where the 7 pack shows up is primarily weighted toward regular organic ranking factors. Some still think it's based on citations and reviews but that's the old algo not this one.
I have a big post coming out tomorrow (partly due to discussions with Miriam on her newest 2 blog posts) that explains the local algo and proves that at least the top 3 in the pack are controlled by the organic algo.

Then of course the "Venice" local results are based on the traditional organic algo.

So links 'can' play a part, however in local it's often not even needed because it's often not super competitive. If you do the Place page right and know how to do good "LOCAL" on-site SEO (which is slightly different than regular SEO) then it can make all the difference. I used to take clients on average from #16 to #2 just doing on-site SEO and local hooks. Never did citations or backlinks and many clients rank #1 even though they had no reviews and are furthest from city center.
So I say good on-site and Places optimization are most important. BUT if in uber competitive market like Atlanta Personal Injury Attorney, then you'll need links too.

Thanks Miriam,

Not sure he specializes per se, but Mike does work with feeds or consults helping with problems on them. Of course when it comes to all things local "The Professor" has most of the answers. But besides him I don't know of anyone that's really a specialist in that area.

I'm on PC but only shows for me on FF not Chrome yet.

Just announced this AM. If you read my post previously, read again. I just added a Q & A from Googler Jade.

I just got the carousel to come up myself now. Does not work for me on Chrome but does on FF oddly. So I'm off to explore and see what I can figure out.

FYI I just announced the carousel launched - it's official and rolling out now!

David, assumed you were talking organic but then you said:  "Google's listings were giving precedence to locality. It was to a very extreme degree, as in when searching for "web design," a firm a mile away ranked higher than one 1.5 miles away and such."

Since you mentioned distance thought then that maybe you were looking at a map result, so I wanted to clarify and make sure you were not seeing something new. But I guess since you know the area you just know where others in your market are located.

BTW on a semi related note, I just announced the new Local Carousel display was officially launched. Pretty exciting! (Related talking about Google Local algo and display changes at least.)

Hey David, sounds like you are seeing a shift that's different than what you normally see? I'm curious if you are seeing an algo change and would like to explore further.

Google does not normally show local 'pinned' results that show in a 7 pack for web design type keywords. Yet you are talking how close one listing is over another so it sounds like maybe you are seeing a pack?

Could you share the exact search term you are using and whether you are seeing and talking about pure organic or 7 pack?

So sorry wish I could help but bulk is the one thing I don't deal with. I find there are not many consultants that know about/work deeply with bulk uploads either and from all the questions I get about it at my forum I know it's not an easy or straightforward process.

Have you posted at the Google Business forum? Myself or one of the other Top Contributors can escalate it to Google if no one knows how to help.

Also have you tried phone support? If you can get someone on the phone that understands bulk, that may be your best bet. From the feedback I get it sounds like most of the phone support reps are somewhat entry level, but maybe they can get you to someone?

I've been posting about the new carousel a lot too, since it was 1st spotted in the wild and have many of the same questions you do.

Since I have not been lucky enough to sit on a test server that is displaying carousels yet, I have not had a chance to investigate. Have only seen other people's screen shots.

But I have a strong feeling this is launching soon, so when it does I can investigate more. At this point I'd only be guessing. But again GREAT questions that I hope will spark a good discussion.

"Ouch, that sounds like a tough bug! Thank you so much for popping back in. I appreciate hearing about what you're seeing."

Oh no, NOT a bug. A big change in how everything works. Sorry maybe should have explained more but assumed you knew. We've been talking a lot about it at the forum.

It's a change to the backend data pipeline and also what's allowed. Due to the myriad of problems I've posted about in detail, that dual claimed listings can cause, you aren't going to be able to just re-claim a listing that was already claimed.

So if owner can't remember password OR previous SEO claimed it, there are extra hoops to jump through and it's complicated to explain all the options and how it works because it's somewhat situation dependent. There are screenshots and support emails from consultants documenting all the issues at my place but I don't want to take this image discussion off-topic. PM or email me if you need the link. It's kind of a big deal.

Miriam, I'm gradually seeing more and more reports rolling in from users that have been upgraded, but I don't think anyone knows what % have been upgraded yet.

Also seeing significant uptick in users that can't reclaim a listing that was previously claimed and that's tied to the new dashboard update as well.