Links from directories
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They are not really a grey area they are frowned upon - https://support.google.com/webmasters/answer/66356 not to mention Google distaste for article directories.
"We have some competitors that have a large number of links from paid directory sites and, on the face of it, this tactic does not hurt their rankings"
I think what you need to think is "yet" it might not now but it can in the future.
Any advice for directories is the following: Don't do it for the link do it for the user. If you have a niche directories for say coffee and you sell coffee and users are using the directory for finding people selling coffee then that's great! You want to submit to directories you think real people are using to find services no spammy directories for the sake of a link.
Now you can get away with a small percentage of your profile with directories but that also increases that small percentage of risk you have on your site too so weight it up before proceeding.
TL:DR
- Google doesn't like them (it's not a grey area) - Matt Cutts
- Use them for the user not the links
- if you do use them there is risk/reward element
Hope that helps a bit.
*quick edit for a mistake
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I prefer content building to link bait sites. I try not to ever ask for a link at all, and pretend a Google Rep is behind my shoulder.
Some of the newer independent tests show Google is giving more importance to not just the link but the fact that people are using the link.
Also have you logged into your Google Webmaster Tools page to make sure there are no errors? I'd also enable email notifications. It's ESSENTIAL if you don't my opinion.
I'd never buy a link in a directory nowadays, but if you go to http://www.opensiteexplorer.org and search the sites and when it's done click the button "Compare Link Metrics". Then enter your site and 4 other competitor sites. (I like to do at least one low end site, one high end, and one middle quality sites.)
Whichever has the most domain auth, page auth, and especially MozTrust (hopefully at least level 5). Mine right now is
http://www.euge******ks.com/ www.eugene**eeks.com/ <a class="compare">+ Add URL</a> <a class="compare">+ Add URL</a> <a class="compare">+ Add URL</a> --- --- --- --- --- Page Authority: 33 35 -- -- -- Page MozRank: 4.59 4.81 -- -- -- Page MozTrust: 5.14 4.99 -- -- -- Internal Equity-Passing Links: 319 343 -- -- -- External Equity-Passing Links: 30 59 -- -- -- Total Internal Links: 319 343 -- -- -- Total External Links: 37 62 -- -- -- Total Links: 356 405 -- -- -- Followed Linking Root Domains: 14 28 -- -- -- Total Linking Root Domains: 21 31 -- -- -- Linking C Blocks: 8 11 -- -- -- Equity-Passing Links:vs Non-Equity-Passing Links: Internal LinksvsExternal Links Facebook Shares: 64 209 -- -- -- Facebook Likes: 52 220 -- -- -- Tweets: 46 100 -- -- -- Google +1s: 67 84 -- -- -- Total Social Shares: 177 393 -- -- -- Subdomain Metrics See which metrics are affecting the subdomains on your site.
www.eugenecomputergeeks.com/ www.eugenecomputergeeks.com/ -- -- -- Subdomain MozRank 4.33 4.33 -- -- -- Subdomain MozTrust 4.43 4.43 -- -- -- External Equity-Passing Links 159 159 -- -- -- Total External Links 181 181 -- -- -- Total Links 28,182 28,182 -- -- -- Followed Linking Root Domains 49 49 -- -- -- Total Linking Root domains 61 61 -- -- -- Equity-Passing Links:vs Non-Equity-Passing Links: Internal LinksvsExternal Links Root Domain Metrics See which metrics are affecting the root domain of your site.
eugenecomputergeeks.com/ eugenecomputergeeks.com/ -- -- -- Domain Authority 25 25 -- -- -- Domain MozRank 3.81 3.81 -- -- -- Domain MozTrust 4.02 4.02 -- -- -- External Equity-Passing Links 159 159 -- -- -- Total External Links 186 186 -- -- -- Total Links 28,195 28,195 -- -- -- Followed Linking Root Domains 49 49 -- -- -- Total Linking Root Domains 61 61 -- -- -- Linking C Blocks 22 22 -- -- -- Equity-Passing Links:vs Non-Equity-Passing Links: Internal LinksvsExternal Links I'm curious what your numbers are.
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I forgot to mention that even though you should never buy links, if the domain authority and under "Compare Link Metrics" Moztrust is higher or equal to your old site then I'd keep only those links. I would never buy a directory as nobody uses them anymore...Google knows this and it's basically link buying.
Nobody in the directory is going to click the link either which in my opinion you get almost no link "juice" if the link isn't getting traffic plus thats the whole point of an external link....for people to use them to access that page.
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Completely agree with what you've said there, links from directories would never form a major part of a link-building strategy.
**"Don;t do it for the link do it for the user" - **this is why I was ensuring that we only looked at relevant directories that we feel our potential customers would find useful.
**"no spammy directories for the sake of a link" - **again, this is why we are filtering based on relevance, trust and whether or not the site would be a genuine source of relevant traffic.
The reason I said that they were a grey area is based on the fact that, in the Link Schemes link you provided, it doesn't specifically say that paid directories are bad. It states that: -
- **"Buying or selling links that pass PageRank. This includes exchanging money for links, or posts that contain links; exchanging goods or services for links; or sending someone a “free” product in exchange for them writing about it and including a link" - **this does not specifically mention quality, paid directories.
- **"Low-quality directory or bookmark site links" - **again, it's obvious that low-quality is bad, but it doesn't flat-out say to avoid them altogether.
I completely agree that including your site in just any directory is bad. I agree that there has to be an element of quality and relevance. I just don't see that paying for inclusion in certain, quality directories that are relevant to your audience is a bad thing when used as part of a link-building and promotional campaign. Even more so when you consider the Yahoo! Directory and the perceived gains from inclusion.
Thanks for your advice, it's greatly appreciated.
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Further to this, even Moz's own Link Acquisition Assistant returns lists of directories, based on your keywords, location and industry. Obviously you then have to sift through the rubbish, but it still gives the opinion that directories are useful in their own way.
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Hiya,
You seem to have roughly gotten my point, you should take my opinion with a pinch of salt as it is my opinion and I'd say its defiantly closer to the black than white sense of grey area.
Remember Moz's link assistant is older and thus gives directories which can be helpful in a niche environment. Look at it as a risk reward scenario whilst you may get some authority you will also increase risk of a penalty. I never meant to insinuate all directories were bad but most people who use them use them in a context that isn't really the best solution, they are a bit 'outdated' now days.
I think its best summed up by the Matt Cutts video which is also tied with the guidelines. I'm always keen for people to have as much information as they need to make informed choices which you seem to have.
Thanks for the reply.
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I do agree with you, I was just playing Devil's Advocate. My opinion is based only on what I can see around me in terms of competitors and how their link profiles don't appear to be affecting their excellent rankings - at least not at the moment!
I think it's a similar case to most SEO - keep quality and relevance in mind, don't focus entirely on one area, think about the users and you won't go far wrong.
Really appreciate your opinion, I think we're pretty much in the same ballpark!
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Any paid directory seems like a bad idea. We used a few of the more reputable ones for a while, and saw literally no seo benefit. The issue seems to be with the page rank and weight, and the fact that Google is becoming increasingly aware of link directories. If you look at the home page of these directories, they are usually a page rank of 3-5. The top level categories or pages your link is listed on? Zero. This doesn't pass on any weight, and not surprisingly most links are no follow.
True it may not hurt their rankings but it probably doesn't do them any favors either.
If you want to submit to a few, I don't think it would hurt you now, but I wouldn't think it is a good long term strategy. If the linking site does ever get hit with a penalty, it could potentially affect your site as well. I would look for the most reputable sites that offer human edited submissions, and have a lot of history.
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Thanks for your reply, David.
I think it's a case of being selective and ensuring that it doesn't form a major part of any promotional strategy.
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I see some people who must study SEO but not practice it in here.
Think of SEO like investing in the markets. You have to consider how much risk you're willing to take. There is no white/gray/black hat - there are only different levels of risk tolerance.
Links are the most important factor for ranking in Google. If you can get some new inbound links from sites that aren't horrible or deindexed, they've got a chance at boosting your rankings. Obviously a backlink profile built mostly off directories isn't going to work for long, but dedicating a small percentage of your backlinks to directory submissions won't hurt you and is a quick way to get easy links.
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This is probably the side of the fence that I fall on in terms of this issue. If I see that obtaining links from paid directories isn't only not hurting our major competitors, but actually seemingly helping them rank on the first page and outrank us for many keywords, then I am natually going to assume that those links are helping their rankings.
One of our major competitors outranks us for more than one of our main targetted keywords and, having checked their link profile again today, they clearly invest a lot in obtaining links from directories, not many of them are relevant, what you would call reputable on first look and one is French, not even being in the site's own language!
Furthermore, although they don't do it for every link they have on directory sites, they have many links that use keyword-specific anchor text. Now, this is something that I would hesitate doing as often as they do, rather I would use branded anchor text when unsure of the validity of a link as I would expect that to carry less of a penalty if that were to happen, but it's clearly not hurting their rankings, instead seeming to help them.
In any case, this is why I referred to the use of directory links as somewhat of a grey area - it's not completely clear as to whether it's a viable link-building option or not. Given what I've seen of our competitors, I have to come to the conclusion that it's worth the risk.
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