Spammy page titles and the consequences

[McTaggart]

Hiya Mozzers!

A pal who works in SEO has suggested I add the following type  <title>tag structure to my pages:<br /><br />Bars in New York - Bars New York [no brand name]</p> <p>Pizzas in New York - Pizzas New York [no brand name]</p> <p>Firstly, I think this looks spammy, secondly, can't understand the logic of both combinations, thirdly, my understanding is brand name lessens importance of keyphrases, but it's still important from a branding point of view.</p> <p>Fourthly, is this sustainable? I mean, Google could identify this as spammy in the future, with penalty, no? Any feedback on these points would be very useful.</p> <p>Also, he said that I should play around with title tags on an ongoing basis, but I haven't changed any single title tag more than once/6 months for fear of being flagged for manipulative SEO practice by Google. Guidance here would be great as well.</p> <p>Thanking you in advance, Luke</p></title>

[eyepaq]

It makes no sense to go with your friend approach

You won't get a penalty for it but for sure it won't help you either.

Brand at the end ? It's a choice - personally I always place it at the end as I think it makes sense.

having the duplicate and small hang between the two phrases ? Doesn't help.

I would go with " Bars in New York | brand " if that mess sense with the page and all.

What you could mix up is to have a different h1 - slightly different if possible as google doesn't like to be told what to rank based on what

Hope it makes sense. hope it helps.

[McTaggart]

Thanks eyepaq yes that sure makes sense, and helps 

I was wondering about that - the 'in' - I mean might you pick up more long-tail results without the in? Or perhaps it doesn't make much difference one way or the other...

[jeffreytrull1]

I agree with eyepaq. Your friend is mostly likely suggesting this in an attempt to rank for both of the phrases - "Bars in New York" and "Bars New York"

If that's the case,  there are better ways to target different keyword phrases than trying get it all into the title tag.

[eyepaq]

If you point some links using the anchor text "Bars in New York" will solve this. But remember to dilute the anchor text, use different anchor texts including the domain name and your brand so everything.

Even if you don't have the "in" in the title tag you will rank for variation of those keywords - what's important is how other link to you / to this page (external links).

Internal, your own links, are not as powerful as the inbound links but still can send the right signal so make sure in your site on other pages, but still in a natural, user friendly way, you link to this page by using "Bars in New York", "bars", "new york". It will help.

Can you share the link of the page and site ?

[McTaggart]

Thanks eyepaq and Jeffrey. I agree with you guys totally. Strange how many SEOs do spammy stuff these days. From a sustainability perspective, I guess there's a risk Google may flag spammy close-repeat page titles in the future too?

How often is it safe to change page titles too, without upsetting Google? I've heard of people experiencing problems because Google can flag regular changes (or perhaps this is simply an urban myth of some kind ;-))

Thanks again, Luke

[eyepaq]

I guess there's a risk Google may flag spammy close-repeat page titles in the future too?

** actually you can change as many times as you want as long as it makes sense with the content on the page.

How often is it safe to change page titles too, without upsetting Google? I've heard of people experiencing problems because Google can flag regular changes (or perhaps this is simply an urban myth of some kind ;-))

** It won't get upset but ranking will change - better or worse.

You can only upset it if the title tags will read one thing and the content will be on a totally different subject - that can be interpreted as manipulative but it won't ever get you into real trouble like a penalization (actually as long as you don't do it on a large scale - thousands or more pages like this as that can trigger a manual penalization).