Anyone else noticing that their expired domains have lost PR?

[MarieHaynes]

A while back I experimented with buying some expired domains that had some PR.  I built a small website on each and created content with anchor text that linked back to my main site.

For one of my sites I noticed a significant drop in rankings this week.  At first I thought it was because of the latest Panda update.  But, the drop was slow, not sudden like most Panda hits have been.

Then, I noticed that some of my previously purchased domains that had held their PR for quite a while are now PR N/A.  I'm guessing that the latest algorithm change caught on to what I was doing.

Probably what I was doing was grey hat.  I honestly think that every SEO goes through a period where they try out some grey or even black tactics.  This makes me even more desiring to be completely White hat now....and build links that are going to last.

I was just wondering if any of you guys have experienced anything like this this week?  Would love to hear your thoughts.

EDIT:  A second question - What would you guys do with these domains?  They're still in the Google index so they're not penalized, likely just stripped of PR.  Would you scrap them completely?  Remove the links back to my sites?  Do nothing?

[RobertFisher]

I found your post interesting, but I have had a different experience this week in that several sites that we have been nurturing moved up a significant amount page 4 to page 2, several moved up over a dozen positions. Hope that means we have been doing a good job and not that Google knocked some others around.

I was pondering your very issue re older domains and expiring domains over the last couple of days. I have not seen an expiring domain lose ranking before. (Hopefully, we never will as that is the last thing I need. A registrar with one more reason to send me another expiration notice - you ignored our last 300 emails that started two years before your domain expired.....do you really want to lose DA???? Contact us NOW!)

But, the question regarding what to do with a domain that is "unused" is interesting. We typically buy most extensions for any TLD and those are built around several keyword groups as we begin to develop a campaign. So, assuming we are building a group of sites around a new dental paint that never has to be whitened...... Dental-paint.com, .net, .org, .info, etc. along with Never-whiten-with-dental-paint.org, .com, .net, .info, etc.

From these, our clients will typically use 3 or 4 so there are a group that are left. Maybe, never used before. I will sometimes let an intern build a site as a project for their degree, etc. Rarely do they end up with any real DA.

As to the white/grey/black hat issues, for me it always seems to be around expediency. Personally, I have always wanted what I want, when I want it and I always want it now or yesterday!!! So, I can either opt for the expedient and hope my client doesn't pay the price or endeavor to take the high road. My personal opinion is that one person saying something is wrong does not make it so. So, I try to measure my actions against how I feel when I see others doing something similar.

I hate it when I see so many sites with links, for example for urologists that com from caps-or us, honkytonkyjonky, expotexto, monkeymania, etc. I read about Google penalizing people but then see that the vast majority of links used on professional practice sites are so bogus that ....well they are.

What's an SEO marketer to do. For me, I just don't have time to deal with the junk directories and I have learned that some of them will get to me anyway. I watch as big directories of national companies take money from their clients then put nofollow links to the sites. (Can't wait until there is some sort of exclusion for a site that is simply a lawyer, doctor, dentist, carpenter, etc. directory - when I want a dentist for an implant I do not want to be served up Yahoo.local.dentist from some other place or specialty. )

So, I am submitting to the better directories then pushing clients to go to vendors, etc. for links and we do all that we can to blog, PR Web, etc.

Personally, there is satisfaction at the end of the day in knowing we "Out-optimized the other guy and we did it on the up and up with quality site metrics, quality links, thought out keyword and link strategies, and a commitment to look at it every day in order to keep the client on top or moving toward the top."

And one last thing. We stayed on top of our game because we are connected to such a great group of marketing pros through SEOmoz. Sorry for the sentimentality, but I never cease to be amazed at the willingness to help one another get better and better and better.

Thanks for a thought provoking question,

[RyanKent]

** This makes me even more desiring to be completely White hat now....and build links that are going to last.**

Thumbs up for both the question and the sentiment.

Google is far from perfect, but given the size of their work and the determination of webmasters, programmers, SEOs and everyone with an iPad to usurp their process, I applaud them for continuing to take steps to improve results.

To address your question and Robert's concern:** Anyone else noticing that their expired domains have lost PR?**

I would put my logic hat on and think the right thing for Google to impact (i.e. reset PR) would be expired domains which changed owners AND content. That's what I would do if I worked for Google. It explains the results you and Robert shared.

Otherwise I wholeheartedly echo Robert's sentiments. Panda 2.5 hit last week. The only thing I feel bad about is those poor people at Panda's international who depend on people's donation to save this species which is almost extinct (around 1000 left in the world). You are trying to save a species on the bring of extinction and the world's largest marketing company names their spam and manipulation killing algorithm change after the species you are trying to save....big ouch!

watch?v=544NtOj7A4A

[MarieHaynes]

Thank you for a thoughtful reply.  I'm thinking of creating a YouMoz post about my struggles of learning to rank with only White Hat Tactics.  You're right, it's crummy to look at your competitors and see that they rank with ridiculous directory links.

[MarieHaynes]

Thanks Ryan.  Your video reminded me of this animated gif that Rand tweeted the other day.  (See image below):

uImJH.gif

[MarieHaynes]

I've noticed that my two domains that have lost PR had links in a blogroll in the sidebar.  I have some expired domains that are still working for me.  These simply had links in context.

Perhaps the newest Panda Update looks for sites with PR that have recently changed hands that have blogroll links?

[KeriMorgret]

Marie, feel free to send me an email if you want to bounce any ideas off of me about YouMoz, I'm currently the primary person reviewing submissions and can give you some pointers about what tends to do well on the blog. keri at seomoz dot org.

[KeriMorgret]

There's also a problem that's happened in the last couple of days for third-party reporting of toolbar pagerank that might be affecting what you're seeing. Check out the post at http://mz.cm/rjPAwc.