Competitor spamming and winning

[wattlebristol]

Take a look at this site http://www.bafhs.org.uk/ in the footer - do you see the image for the developer of the site in the bottom right? Now view source, it is a link with exact match anchor text for the keyword hidden with an image.

[wattlebristol]

By the way guys the problem here isn't that it is one or two bad apples, it is all of them, every single page in the top ten, and more beyond that first page. There is a lot of real genuine content simply not ranking because of the sheer weight of spam tactics, it is not an isolated instance, and not just related to just this one keyword. I can show you the same thing on keyword after keyword.

The real frustration here is that I provide a genuine service, and have genuine real content that I work hard to produce, I gain natural links now and then and do rank - but these guys generate more revenue than me because they spam...why should I not just follow suit?

[Martin_S]

How the black-on-black linking in the footer is working for this bunch is incredible - http://www.websitedesign-bristol.co.uk/

I suppose now that the legitimate tactics aren't working for you (and others, like me), you'll have to fork out more on Google's AdWords service.

[Kingof5]

If your competitors are ranking with those tactics and have been for years, then try those tactics!

There is no white hat or black hat in SEO. There is only risk tolerance. Think of it like investing. Decide how much you're willing to risk, then make those bets.

Regardless of how much the sheep say "create good content, the rest will take care of itself", it's very misleading. Links are the most important factor for ranking well. If you want to beat these guys at their own game, you have to play their game.

[wattlebristol]

I think what everybody is saying here is that they can see the same things, and that in reality the answer is to take a calculated risk knowing that the worst case scenario is a clean up task, but...the bit that has me chewing my arm is the fact that this advice is the exact opposite of almost every mainstream sites advice (including everything on this site). What I have yet to find is a single honest guide, because the fact is most of them are guides that tell you how to rank a site in the world of fairy dust and magic, but in the real world, it is very rare that this is ever going to work.

[Martin_S]

Some years ago I went for a job interview at a leading London content provider/online marketing agency. The conversation turned to how I'd learnt about SEO etc, I mentioned the sites/blogs I read regularly and the guy doing the interviewing, who was in quite a senior position, reckoned that a certain, highly-regarded SEO 'authority' site purposefully disseminated nonsense now and again to throw people off the scent. I have read everything SEO-related since then with a handful of salt.

[BruceA]

There is another thread currently running here about PPC.

What is interersting is that some Mozzers are reporting sites are getting only 10% organic traffic.

We are all in the same search for the elixir of SEO. We too are baffled by two competitors getting high ranks, but as we mentioned on another post, we also know we sell more than they do for the competing brand.

So it is not always true that those who appear to be winning actually are.

Bruce

[Patrick_G]

wattlebristol,

I had the same epiphany you're having here.

It used to be much, much worse though. Over time the pendulum has increasingly swayed toward the white hat, or at least grey hat side. A site like copyblogger.com ranks at the top for every term they care about, because ever since the very beginning they've preached and lived by creating good content. And they have no fear of getting knocked off their pedestal.

But that's not to say other techniques don't still work. And in some cases they obviously are more effective than "create great content."

One rule of thumb I live by is that Google does not live to make your website popular. It wants to reward content that is already popular in real life. Kingof5 however, makes a strong point that it's not about white or grey, it's about risk tolerance. Do what you feel comfortable believing Google will never penalize you for based on what you are seeing. And be ready to live with the results.

[BruceA]

Good post Patrick

Your right, Google is not here to make us popular, that is our job.  Google has to protect its own postion as No1 search engine, by delivering top quality content first time to the user.

I remember a not that many few years ago starting to get really hacked off with generic search queries delivering porn, meds, directories, warez sites and other useless returns, hit a link and have pop ups galore to try and close before the next one popped open.  What a vastly different experience Google searches are now, of course with Browsers getting better too.  The flip side is that we have to work harder to make our own sites visible to the rank highly.

One other thing we noticed a week ago, was that another competitor who was the bain of our lives, has delisted the brand we were competing with them for.  That said, most who where on the scene a few years ago have also disapeared too.

Without doubt, penguin, panda etc will level again the playing field as Google has to remain the browser of choice for Google to remain at the top position.

(Edit forgot Bruce )

[gazzerman1]

Penguin will be running in less than 2 weeks according to John Mueller at Google. Will be interesting to see who get hit by that.

So many businesses are in your same situation and I don't know of any business that does not own multiple websites now. Just to be safe in case one gets hit by Penguin or Panda or another animal. With the whole if you cant beat them join them, I hear you on that. But don't do it for your main site, do it with another one and get a different phone number for it. Act as a consultant on their for your business. This way when the $%^& hits the fan your main company is not affected. As many have said before its risk tolerance.

[Martin_S]

What are some of the black hat things you guys would do if you were to set up an independent site that's completely separate of your main one? Some of the things aside from those mentioned above that seem to be working for competitors?