Should we use 'disavow' if we dramatically dropped serps after Oct 5th, but did not receive a warning?

[Quime]

We dramatically dropped serps after Oct 5th, but did not receive a warning about bad links on google webmasters.

Is it a good idea to find and collect the worst links and disavow them? As there was no warning we can only guess links were the problem, but it seems likely. However we do not want to send any requests to google if no warning was sent.

Can disavow be used in this way, or should we do more manually?

(We are hoping remove links + increase very solid links + optimize for key words will help revive serps)

Many thanks.

James

[Personnel_Concept]

there was a minor Google update in Oct 5 called Penguin #3 which impacted 0.3 % of queries. However main update was released on sept 27 which targeted exact match domains. If your url is all about keywords then you might have got hit because of that.

I recommend removing bad links manually. Use URL itself as anchor text. Get links from blogs.

If things still doesn't work then try changing titles for low competition keywords. Also optimise the site copy for the same. Don't use keywords as anchor text for link building.

Hope that helps!

[GoodAtMarketing]

Should we use 'disavow' if we dramatically dropped serps after Oct 5th, but did not receive a warning?

Not necessarily, here is a good read on who should use this tool: http://www.seomoz.org/blog/googles-disavow-tool-take-a-deep-breath

[ShaMenz]

Hi James,

My immediate response would be DO NOT place any reliance on the presence or absence of an unnatural links warning from Google!

I have clients who never received an unnatural links warning of any kind and were actually suffering impact from a manual penalty. The penalty was not revealed until I decided that we needed to lodge a reconsideration request because something more than Penguin was going on there. Sure enough, the message that came back from the webspam team was that the site had a manual spam action in place.

Since our company developed the rmoov tool, I have been responsible for customer support and spent many hours talking to site owners who are trying to clean up their backlink profiles. During that time I have heard from many, many other site owners that have big problems with no unnatural links warning message received. A number of these have also found on lodging a reconsideration request, that they have a manual penalty applied to their site.

Basing your assessment of what is happening on whether or not you have received a message from Google is a big mistake, and unfortunately one that is being made by way too many people

Hope that helps,

Sha

[Quime]

Hi I agree, I am assuming we have been hit by some sort of penalty, but don't know the best way to deal with it.

For example should we disavow bad links, then send a reconsideration request, or is it enough to just disavow, beef up strong relevant links (like Vikas said - with less keywords) and hope for the best. Some of our sites crept back one one or two pages, but the other all dropped below page 100.

Is the reconsideration request required in people's experience?

Many thanks!

James

[ShaMenz]

Hi James,

Google's Disavow Tool is not a first line of defence, but the last.

Matt Cutts made it quite clear when releasing the tool that Google still expects webmasters to make a "good faith effort" to remove as many links as possible before using the Disavow Tool.

If you read Dr Pete's post using the link that Smart Lock Solutions provided in their post you can see this. If you have not seen the video from Matt Cutts about the Disavow Tool, you can watch it and read some views on the release of the tool here.

The only way to confirm whether a manual penalty has been applied is to lodge a reconsideration request. The webspam team will respond to a request, either advising that there is no manual action in place, or that a penalty exists because the site violates their search quality guidelines.

Hope that helps,

Sha

[Quime]

Hi, thanks for the answer, so the best thing to do, even if we have had no warning, is to 1st send a reconsideration request, then regardless of what they say, manually try to remove 'bad' links,

After this use disavow for the remaining bad links, then send a new reconsideration request explaining what we did manually to try to help the site. (if they confirm a manual penalty) or do not send a request again if they did not confirm a penalty?

Would this be a logical method?

[ShaMenz]

Hi James,

I would start out with cleaning up damaging links first, then lodge a reconsideration request. It is important not to appear to be trying to get out of a situation without making any real effort. That could put you on the back foot if you need to make future requests.

Keep in mind that some links may be totally within your own control to remove - I recently cleaned up links from more than 160 sites for a client by getting hold of a list of login information from a previous SEO vendor. I was then able to log into all those sites and either delete bogus profiles (where that was an option), or delete over-optimized body text and signature links that had been created within them.

Over-optimized links from article directories and syndicated content are another area that is usually within the site owner's control. I am stunned how many people I see sending email to the owners of Article Directories asking them to remove links when they could just log into the account and fix the problem themselves.

Once you have removed all the links that you can, you can use the Disavow Tool to inform Google of any links that you have not been able to clean up, then lodge a reconsideration request and include a link to the information in the Disavow list that you uploaded.

Hope that helps,

Sha

[Quime]

Thanks Sha,

We will definitely look into removing links where possible ourselves.

One thought though, if the site is not necessarily 'penalised' but instead the bad links have just been demoted, would it make more sense to not send a reconsideration request? often people have said that this just raises an alarm bell to google if not totally necessary?

And if not sending a recon request, then should we not also send a disavow?

I think this a kind of dilema that many people face when seeing drops but not being sure of an actual manual penalty.

James.

[ShaMenz]

Hi James,

Everyone has their own view of Google and what interacting with them might mean.

My personal view is that anyone who thinks they are clever enough to fly under the radar when everything they do is aimed at making themselves visible in Google is probably mistaken.

often people have said that this just raises an alarm bell to google if not totally necessary?

If you are seeing keywords that have dropped below page 100 in the SERPs, I would think those alarm bells have long since rung.

Sha