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Thanks James It is frustrating that Google rewards such practices, and as the sites in question operate around lower volume search terms I dont see this changing any time soon. The argument has been, 'look at how well we are doing with these other sites - how can it be wrong'..... its difficult to educate managment on the risks when the current data proves the wrong way works. I wonder if anybody on here has been in a similar spot and managed to result in some form of win? Thanks again.