Titles and User Intent

[Nigel_Carr]

Hi

I agree that you need to do some keyword research as it's a lot of characters to use up if people do not search for it. I disagree however that you would put 'buy online' at the front of the title. I work with a lot of online retailers and the correct way is to put the main keyword first. Also 'Buy online blue flowers' just doesn't read correctly so it looks spammy.

Far better to put the types of blue flowers you sell and in what format.

Blue Flowers, Bouquets & Displays - Buy Online | Flower Palace

Something like this.

Then write a really compelling description up to 315 characters.With the description, you could be really florid, ahem pulling people in with a very strong call to action which could include a 'from' price, 'free delivery', 'up to x miles' from... Flowers are rarely sold just as they are and are almost always part of a bouquet or a display, hence my advice.

I hope that helps,

Regards

Nigel

[Casey_Bryan]

I see your point Nigel. In regards to what I meant, I would see a good title tag (depending on keyword research of course) as something like:

Buy Blue Flowers Online - Bespoke Bouquets | Flower Palace

Or like you mentioned Nigel, adding in a price/USP would be ideal.

But split testing is key. When I am changing title tags on key landing pages, I will add an annotation in Google Analytics so I can review the impact.

Goodluck!

[Nigel_Carr]

Hi Casey

I repeat, I would not start the title with 'Buy' anything. It's not searched for. I would start with the main keyword.

The 'bespoke bouquets' would only be added if that was what was on offer and would be the result of KW research. Bespoke isn't searched either.

Anyway, I don't think us discussing the issue is going to help.

Keyword, Product Offering, Company

Regards

Nigel

[Casey_Bryan]

Hi Nigel,

I am not trying to drag this on, however, my points are coming from personal experience.

I agree, that everything needs to start with keyword research for this - it's undeniable.

However, perhaps the market here in Australia is quite different as I know for the wine industry here in Aussie there are a lot of searches around 'buy wine online' - see screenshot.

I have optimised a site for such keywords and are getting great results.

Every case is different, so perhaps we can agree to disagree

Moral of the story: keyword research is a must.

Cheers,
Casey

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[Nigel_Carr]

We should not be arguing here. Every product area is different. It's all in the research. I have nothing further to add - you're just confusing the poor person. Please Remove and PM me if you want to discuss.

[Casey_Bryan]

Hi Nigel,

I don't think a private message or deleting any of my responses is needed.

As my first statement said, keyword research is a must before any further action is taken by Onlineorders.

The Moz community is about sharing ideas and knowledge. I am simply sharing my experiences. Yes it's a different industry and a different country, which is why keyword research must be done by Onlineorders first.

With regards to my experiences, I am actually tracking a website which has 'buy wine online' in the title tag. See the search analytics from Google Search Console attached and the Google Analytics stats backs this up (just imagine if I can get higher rankings for this term!). It works for me, for this website and this particular industry. So it may work for others too.

I am not sure where Onlineorders is based, but looking in my market and going off the Moz keyword tool, there's decent search volume around 'buy flowers online' too. SEMrush reports 320 average searches a month in Australia. However when looking at Google autocomplete/suggested searches it more leans towards using 'online' moreso than 'buy online'. So it's definitely worth investigating whether it may be a feasible course of action.

I am not trying to ruffle any feathers, just sharing ideas. Anyone in this industry should know that you've got to experiment and read a lot of differing opinions to then work out what's the right course of action to take.

All the best,
Casey

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[Nigel_Carr]

That's fine Casey. I just don't see the point in having a public argument.

So for the record.

I completely disagree with you.

To put generic and stop words in a title is incorrect especially when they are rarely searched for keywords and phrases. (There are occasions when it is correct, for example in the band 'Reverand And The Makers' where the two words in the middle are part of the band's name)

320 searched a month is 10 a day! - that is not in my opinion worth chasing after. With such a rarely searched combination of keywords, of course, you are going to be high in search! It's easy prey! (White Wine has 1.7-2.9k a month)

You are wasting valuable space by putting those words in there.

This is the correct way:

Product (Primary Keyword)  | Category of Products (Secondary Keyword) | Brand Name /Shop

Then support the on-page with clear H1 headed, well written contextually strong text containing semantics, around the primary and secondary keyword.

Don't litter the title with 'Buy' or 'Online' put those in the description where you can use 315 characters including spaces creating a really strong call to action to heighten CTR. Also put keyword and secondary keyword in the description as they will be bolded and catch the eye. (Description is not used by Google as a ranking factor).

There is more here: https://moz.com/learn/seo/title-tag

Regards

Nigel

[Casey_Bryan]

Thanks for your response Nigel. I guess at the end of the day we all need to do what's best for our clients. I don't agree there is 1 right way for SEO, you need to experiment and be open to trying different things. Obviously, things which stick to Google guidelines.

What may work for one client, won't necessarily work for another. Which is completely fine with me, if this works for me and not you - well so be it.

For the example above, the search intent for 'buy wine online' is what we want to target rather than a generic, term like 'white wine'. While optimising for this may bring more traffic, it probably won't bring the targeted traffic we seek. I'd prefer 10 hits a day with a 50% conversion rate than 100 hits a day with a 1% conversion rate.

Your points are very valid and I appreciate the challenging discussion.

Also in your list of optimisation techniques, don't forget image alt text either While only a small ranking factor, it still counts and can be very helpful for showing up in image searches.

[Nigel_Carr]

I agree about the alt text - there are many on-page factors - I didn't list them all.

[seoelevated]

I am currently wrestling with this same question, just slightly different keywords and context. This was a very interesting debate in this thread, so I am hoping I can encourage some fresh perspectives and also perhaps just to check back in after a couple of years now to see if opinions about this have evolved.

In my current situation, I am trying to decide between:

• Shop [furniture category] | [parent category] | {store name}  , OR
• [furniture category] | [parent category] | [store name]

From keyword research, I do understand that nobody is searching for "shop" in their queries. However, the search results when searching for [furniture category] include a lot of different types of results for different intent. For example, when simply searching for the category name, page 1 results include retailers, manufacturers, professional review sites, informational articles, how-to articles, etc. The specific product category is a niche with a lot of information, news, comparative reviews and is a bit of a longer purchase cycle with research.

We've noticed that after performing a few searches in a row, the page 1 results change a bit, seeming to adjust a little to intent (buy vs research vs news)

With regard to prefixing the title tags with "shop", the arguments in favor of that right now are:

• signaling to search engines that the page is a commerce site to match user intent to searchers who are likely shopping (even if not by their immediate query, but by search their behavior)
• standing out in the results (for CTR purpose) for a commerce-focused shopper, so they can easily distinguish places to buy (e.g. some of the manufacturer sites, even big names, don't actually sell their furniture online)

On the other side of the argument:

• Occurrence of keywords "shop" or "buy" in the queries is very low, almost nil
• Most of the top pages in the results don't prefix, even the retailers and direct-to-consumer manufacturers

Opinions? Any data?