Why has my site dropped to page 2?

[TysonWong]

Thanks for your feedback!

Yes, I agree, I feel that my page 1 placement was more due to my searches based on my geographic location.  That is my biggest concern at the moment, that other customers in my area are not finding my site anymore.

I'll definitely remove those footer links that serve very little purpose other than to direct users to content that they can get from the main navigation.

To get a better idea of how Panda works, or Google Search Algo in general...  does it look at my site as a "whole" when it scores the value of sending users to my index page?

For pages on my site that obviously are only meant as a "product" with simple photo, sku and price.  Does that mean it would see it as very thin content, and penalize my site as a whole?

[EGOL]

Panada is a part of the Google algorithm that looks at the quality of a website.  If a website has lots of duplicate pages or thin content pages then Google will demote the rankings of the entire website.

Google's recommended way of fixing the problem is to improve the content of those pages by adding substantive, relevant, unique content that is useful for the visitors.  You could easily do this for your site.  It will simply take a dedicated effort to improve those pages.

Will that enable you to compete effectively with vistaprint, etsy, partycity and others?  I am not optimistic it will.

However, you might be able to optimize and promote your site so that it appears in local searches such as "toronto wedding invitations".  I see you on the first page, but with some work and investment you might be able to get a better position on both the page and the map results.

[TysonWong]

Thanks for giving me a better understanding of how Panda works.

I agree, I'm targeting my local market, but I noticed when using "google.ca" (vs. .com)  Searching for the keywords "wedding invitations" (without Toronto), does yield a few of my local competitors (along with the big boys like vistaprint) that have leapfrogged me this past year....

So if my site had, hypothetically speaking, 1000s of product pages, but with a simple one line description, along with photo and price to be simple.  Would Google penalize me for having THIN content then?

Lastly, does PageRank matter anymore?  My site was a PR3 - does that matter when the other local competitors that have leapfrogged me are all PR1s?

[EGOL]

Would Google penalize me for having THIN content then?

I would be very surprised if your site does not currently have a Panda demotion.  Most of the links in your persistent navigation lead to thin content.  If you decide to improve these pages it is really important that the content be unique, very different from page to page and substantive.

Another method of escaping Panda is to remove thin content from the site.  Here is an article by Marie Haynes that explains how a couple sites improved after thin content removal.

Lastly, does PageRank matter anymore?  My site was a PR3 - does that matter when the other local competitors that have leapfrogged me are all PR1s?

PageRank can be important.  However, your search results are heavily influenced by the geographic location of the searcher and their distance from your location.

If I owned your site, my priorities would be to improve it by a combination of content writing and thin content removal, then put my main effort into optimizing and promoting my site for local search.

[TysonWong]

I'll make an effort to improve the THIN content pages.  Assuming I've "fixed" all issues that the Panda Algo doesn't like - how "soon/long" would it take to be "out of demotion".  Is it re-calculated daily, or only when there are Panda updates (how often?)?

Is there anyway to flag a "product page" so that Panda wouldn't look at it?  I'm just thinking in the case where I create 1000 product display pages, does that mean I would really need to write 1000 content HEAVY pages?  --  Sorry, I just realized there is the META NOINDEX method...

If my site is built 80% product pages, and I suddenly add the NOINDEX meta tag, will that negatively impact the result?  Or would that benefit me in this situation?  It was never my intention for any searchers to land on any direct product page.  My main focus for any searchers is to reach my main index page.

Is there a "magic number" of number of words to make it a suitable content page?  (i.e. NOT-THIN)

I really appreciate you helping me out with this!

[rklkevs]

If you remove all your thin content you are sure to bypass panda and you wouldn't be penalized.

And there aren't really a magic number of number of words to make a suitable content page but make sure that the html and content ratio is 70% to 30%.

[EGOL]

Is it re-calculated daily, or only when there are Panda updates (how often?)?

Nobody knows how often google injects new Panda evaluations into the ranking results.  It's really irrelevant because the sooner you improve the content of your website the sooner your visitors will have a quality experience.   Thin pages can produce a negative impression of your business on the visitor, especially when your competitors have done an excellent job.

**I'm just thinking in the case where I create 1000 product display pages, does that mean I would really need to write 1000 content HEAVY pages? **

Generous content is the cost of becoming competitive.  The fact that you realize that and make it happen gives you a huge advantage over your competitors.

**If my site is built 80% product pages, and I suddenly add the NOINDEX meta tag, will that negatively impact the result?  **

Nobody really knows the answer to this.  If I had a site that was 80% thin product pages, I would delete them instead of noindexing such a large part of the site.  Each time you improve one into a good substantive page and publish it, that page will become and asset that pulls traffic and converts visitors.

Is there a "magic number" of number of words to make it a suitable content page?

Since you have a walk-in store, you probably have a lot of experience with customers.  Take that experience and produce a page that explains the product, answers common questions, counters objections, explains the questions that they should have asked but didn't.

My main focus for any searchers is to reach my main index page.

I don't agree with that goal.   Most of the people who purchase from my sites never see the homepage.  They land on a product page from search and add an item to the cart.   They might land on an article that I have written and use a house ad or a link to my store and then buy the product.   I am quite confident that if many of these customers landed on naked pages I would have never gotten their business.

[TysonWong]

As always, I appreciate your knowledgeable feedback on these issues.

I'm cleaning up my site, and removing some of the 'black-hat' SEO techniques that I had thought worked 5 years ago...  I had created a script to generate "doorway" pages on my site.

i.e., if you searched "wedding invitations" + random city, like "wedding invitations thornhill, wedding invitations richmond hill, wedding invitations brampton, etc...

http://www.stephita.com/wedding/invitations/thornhill

http://www.stephita.com/wedding/invitations/richmond+hill

http://www.stephita.com/wedding/invitations/brampton

My site is listed on the first page for most of these "wedding invitation city" type searches.

Assuming my site has already been "Panda Demoted", does it make sense that these links are still on the first page for those "long tail searches"?  Is it because of these specific pages that my site's index page (www.stephita.com) has been demoted in SERP when searching for the broader "wedding invitations" locally?  ** I hope I am making sense here **

I used to have links in the footer and sitemap that would lead crawlers to these "doorway pages", but I have removed all traces of it from the site now.  How long will the pre-existing indexed pages live in their results?  Should I take steps to pro-actively remove them?

[EGOL]

When a site is hit by Panda, most pages of the site suffer a rankings decline.  There are different levels of Panda severity.  Sometimes the losses might be just a couple of positions, other times the losses might drop many positions.

You seem to have a nice business and you've gotten away with using shortcuts to create your content for a while.  But anyone who looks closely at these cookie cutter pages will see that  the wording is awkward, the photos don't match the names or the colors listed, and problems  like Oren & Bar Mitzvah sneak in.

It's time to invest the time needed to do a proper job.  That's what most people who have Panda problems and want to get out of them are doing.

[TysonWong]

Yes, I've removed all the "shortcuts" of bad thin content now.

But I'm a little confused by your comment:

But anyone who looks closely at these cookie cutter pages will see that  the wording is awkward, the photos don't match the names or the colors listed, and problems  like Oren & Bar Mitzvah sneak in.

Do you see something in particular that is bringing this to your attention?