The Moz Q&A Forum

    • Forum
    • Questions
    • My Q&A
    • Users
    • Ask the Community

    Welcome to the Q&A Forum

    Browse the forum for helpful insights and fresh discussions about all things SEO.

    1. SEO and Digital Marketing Q&A Forum
    2. Categories
    3. Local Strategy
    4. Most useful things to do without developer resources on SEO

    Most useful things to do without developer resources on SEO

    Local Strategy
    51 19 1.8k
    • Oldest to Newest
    • Newest to Oldest
    • Most Votes
    Reply
    • Reply as question
    Log in to reply
    This topic has been deleted. Only users with topic management privileges can see it.
    • WebMarkets
      WebMarkets @Martijn_Scheijbeler last edited by

      you dont believe in keyword density?

      Martijn_Scheijbeler 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote -1
      • Martijn_Scheijbeler
        Martijn_Scheijbeler @WebMarkets last edited by

        No, because if you're thinking about it you're clearly not writing content that is intended for a user. I've worked with dozens of editors for publishers that really never think about keywords or the density of it. They're the best ranking sites in the world 😉

        WebMarkets 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 3
        • WebMarkets
          WebMarkets @Martijn_Scheijbeler last edited by

          Agree to disagree. Every page has a keyword density to it. Just because your focus may be conversational and written to engage the user (which, i agree and also Implement), Google still views the keyword density as part of its algorithm to index what the page content is all about.

          Im not suggesting to stuff each page with monotonous keywords. What I am saying is Google needs to know what each page implies. And they use keyword density as part of its algorithm to judge each page and correctly rank it in the index.

          Martijn_Scheijbeler 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
          • Martijn_Scheijbeler
            Martijn_Scheijbeler @WebMarkets last edited by

            _"And they use keyword density as part of its algorithm to judge each page and correctly rank it in the index." - _This part still doesn't make any sense. Because you're basically trying to maintain a 'healthy' balance that is a percentage in your tool. But nobody knows what the actual percentage is anyway and for sure that their interpretation is not a certain % but totally variable based on many more factors.

            So summed up, you're looking at a metric that doesn't tell you anything. At best keyword density is a metric that will count how many times a word is being mentioned against all of them, which is a percentage. Not a density number that is useful.

            WebMarkets 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
            • WebMarkets
              WebMarkets @Martijn_Scheijbeler last edited by

              Again, agree to disagree. Which is the beauty of SEO.

              If I create a page about snocones in phoenix but didnt mention snocones in phoenix on the text of the page, would my website rank highly on the search term, "snocones in phoenix"?

              Martijn_Scheijbeler 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
              • Martijn_Scheijbeler
                Martijn_Scheijbeler @WebMarkets last edited by

                Yes, it's called: Links. Even if you would mention the keyword, you're not creating any argument for why keyword density is a good metric at all or any relation on why you should be checking it. Keyword density is a flawed metric, it doesn't provide you with any context or guideline why a certain range is good or bad.

                WebMarkets 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                • WebMarkets
                  WebMarkets @Martijn_Scheijbeler last edited by

                  Yes, I would agree links help as well, greatly. But link building is roughly 25-30% of the total SEO pie. My argument is about on page content, and utilizing a keyword density tool to communicate to Google how relevant the on page content is. The higher the density, but not so high to warrant a black hat technique, the more opportunity to rank on a certain keyword. If you cannot agree to this statement, I'm sure you're just focused on gathering MOZ points.

                  Nothing is an exact science in the SEO world. And if it is, you apparently work for Google...or Google works for you.

                  1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                  • gfiorelli1
                    gfiorelli1 @LureCreative last edited by

                    Social signals are not a ranking factor.

                    Moreover, it has been demonstrated by Buzzsumo that the theory of social media amplification = more backlinks is false, because, as that study says:

                    1. only a small percentage of all the blog posts published daily are able to obtain a minimum number of social share and
                    2. in order to obtain at least one backlink, thousands of social shares are needed.
                    Eric_S 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                    • gfiorelli1
                      gfiorelli1 @RayflexGroup last edited by

                      This answer is good, because of the tools that are shared.

                      However... creating unique content doesn't mean your site will start earning links like crazy.

                      Umberto Eco once said that there are thousands of exceptional books that nobody ever read. The same can be told about all the "great content" published on the Internet. If you don't

                      If you don't put the same effort you put in creating your "quality content" into promoting it, then you're not going to obtain any backlink at all.

                      Therefore, more than thinking about what tool to use for creating content (please, don't confuse content with formats), I think it's better to suggest checking out the posts here on Moz under the Link Building category.

                      1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                      • gfiorelli1
                        gfiorelli1 @WebMarkets last edited by

                        Keyword Density is a myth as it has been demonstrated for several years !!! Please, don't spread myth in the Moz Q&A.

                        Some sources:

                        • https://moz.com/ugc/seo-myths-that-persist-keyword-density;
                        • https://moz.com/blog/keyword-targeting-density-and-cannibalization-whiteboard-friday
                        • http://www.alessiomadeyski.com/seo-myth-keyword-density/
                        • https://plus.google.com/+BillSlawski/posts/F9h4pVSXapT
                        • https://www.searchenginepeople.com/blog/how-search-really-works-the-keyword-density-myth.html
                        • http://resources.spyfu.com/4-seo-keyword-myths-you-shouldnt-buy-into/
                        • https://www.blackhatworld.com/seo/seo-myth-busting-01-keyword-density.961827/ (I mean, even black hats say it's a myth!)
                        • ....
                        WebMarkets Eric_S 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 2
                        • gfiorelli1
                          gfiorelli1 @mememax last edited by

                          Beware with LSI, which is mostly a myth.

                          As Bill Slawski wrote in Inbound.org back in 2014:

                          _Latent Semantic indexing was invented and patented in 1990 before there was the web. _

                          _It was developed to help index small (less than 10,000 documents) databases of documents that didn't change much (like the Web does). _

                          _There have been a number of companies that started selling LSI Keyword generation tools that promised that they could help identify synonyms and words with the same or similar meaning. _

                          Where those fail is that the LSI process requires access to the database (of documents) in question to calculate which words are synonyms - and the only people with access to Google's database to do that kind of analysis (which isn't possible anyway since Google's index is much too big and changes much too frequently) is Google.

                          A much better metric is TF-IDF, albeit always being conscient that it is still a metric... not the bibie.

                          mememax Igor.Go 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 1
                          • WebMarkets
                            WebMarkets @gfiorelli1 last edited by

                            The wonderful thing about SEO, is that every SEO expert can have a difference of opinion, and both can be correct.

                            mememax Martijn_Scheijbeler 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
                            • mememax
                              mememax last edited by

                              This post is deleted!
                              1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                              • mememax
                                mememax @gfiorelli1 last edited by

                                • Hey Gianluca, thanks for responding to my answer.

                                  I agree that LSI is not a pure metric, and in the past when I used TF-IDF content, it didn't prove to work all the times in all markets. Despite that I think that both LSI and TF-IDF are recognized method to gather information about related keywords and provide to content writers additional insights.

                                  It's not the same when you request an article to a content writer about "Blue ribbons" than providing them information about related keywords, keywords suggested by Google and Questions related using askthepublic. The connection of the three is what I call LSI data, not 100% what google intends with pure LSI (based on the huge amount of data they have) but pretty accurate IMO.

                                1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                • mememax
                                  mememax @WebMarkets last edited by

                                  I think that this is just the bad part about SEO. Opinions.

                                  I agree with you if we use the word experience, as different markets and different sites may respond differently to the same strategy.

                                  I think that when it comes to SEO there is too many opinions without a very strong data support provided by testing. That is the real scientific approach that everyone in this category should take, as among opinions people may have different ones, but when it comes to scientifically proven results there is no discussion 🙂

                                  1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                  • Martijn_Scheijbeler
                                    Martijn_Scheijbeler @WebMarkets last edited by

                                    If you still have that impression, then you have no idea what real SEO is. It's about everything besides opinions. It's using the RIGHT metrics to decide what you're going for and how to prioritize certain areas of optimizations over another. But clearly you don't want to be convinced of that.... good luck with keyword density. I hope the other people reading this topic at least don't take this for granted.

                                    WebMarkets 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                    • WebMarkets
                                      WebMarkets @Martijn_Scheijbeler last edited by

                                      I appreciate your feedback Martin, and yes, as an SEO professional, I am constantly learning about SEO best practices. What I do not appreciate is your willingness to publicly shame me for a difference in opinion. That sir, is something you should correct. Last time I checked, I didn't see your name as the almighty resource for SEO.

                                      "It's using the RIGHT metrics to decide what you're going for and how to prioritize certain areas of optimizations over another. But clearly you don't want to be convinced of that....good luck with keyword density. I hope the other people reading this topic at least don't take this for granted. "

                                      As a comment to your statement, how do we find the "right metrics"? Do these metrics come from theories? A/B testing is real and the A comes from one opinion and the B comes from another. Yes, accurately researched data is concrete, but the samples come from differences in theory...AKA opinion.

                                      However, your argument still has many holes. Your'e basically telling me, I can have a page up for snocones in phoenix, and not mention "snocones and/or phoenix on the page, but still be ranked #1 because of links? That's entirely incorrect.

                                      This example is the point to my argument.

                                      Keyword density isnt the one-stop-shop for great SEO ranking factors, but is does have a hand in on-page optimization. Or.....is that a myth as well?

                                      Martijn_Scheijbeler 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote -1
                                      • Martijn_Scheijbeler
                                        Martijn_Scheijbeler @WebMarkets last edited by

                                        @Kris: Have you even read this post and watched the video that Gianluca posted on this thread earlier: https://www.hobo-web.co.uk/keyword-density-seo-myth/ ? I do agree that mentioning keywords needs to happen obviously. But what I'm completely against is measuring that against a metric like keyword density. TF-IDF is already a better way (which was also already written about in this thread).

                                        For many reasons keyword density is a flawed metric, like I mentioned before. But let me add some more explanation to it:

                                        • The percentage of 1 keyword mentioned v.s. all words on the page. But what does that percentage mean, you have no clue right? Is 1% good, is 2% bad?
                                        • Keyword density takes very many things not into account: the number of words on a page, if I have a 100 word description and 10 mentions of the keyword it could potentially be fine and not keyword spammy. But if I have 1000 words and 25 mentions it could potentially be that it's absolute spam.
                                        • Competition? What are all my other competitors doing, what is their density for a certain keyword. All of that is not being taken into account when looking at these numbers. Maybe a 5% density is high in your industry, maybe it's 0.5% you wouldn't know.

                                        These are just some examples of why the metric in itself is not more then just a percentage and for that I would never recommend using it.

                                        WebMarkets 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
                                        • WebMarkets
                                          WebMarkets @Martijn_Scheijbeler last edited by

                                          After a week of reading your posts, I would expect a better response.

                                          My initial point was to focus on on-page content, by utilizing the diagnosis and keyword density tools on SEO Quake as one of my preferred tools without the use of developer tools.

                                          As Matt Cutts stated in the video, there is a law of diminishing returns when dealing with keyword content. And absolutely there is. So, if there is a law of diminishing returns, there must also be a law of increasing returns. Correct?

                                          I respect your opinion and appreciate your feedback. But not the type of feedback that puts down another person for their opinion. You make good points, but a weak argument on why the metric is flawed overall.

                                          A better discussion would be how does too much keyword density effect Conversion Rate Optimization? Or how a keyword density tool differs from a TF-IDF calculation.

                                          All in all, its been fun. Agree to disagree about pieces of you perspective. And I'm sure the feeling is mutual.

                                          1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote -2
                                          • Christy-Correll
                                            Christy-Correll last edited by

                                            Hi Eric_S, this is a great question!

                                            Have you looked into installing Google Tag Manager on your site?

                                            Depending on how your website is managed, installing GTM on your site may or may not require minimal development resources. Once it's up and running, though, you can use GTM to implement all sorts of SEO changes. On your site. Yourself.

                                            Eric_S 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 4
                                            • 1
                                            • 2
                                            • 3
                                            • 1 / 3
                                            • First post
                                              Last post
                                            • Seo sitemaps
                                              DonnaDuncan
                                              DonnaDuncan
                                              0
                                              4
                                              70

                                            • Outbound Links for Local SEO
                                              Salience_Search_Marketing
                                              Salience_Search_Marketing
                                              2
                                              2
                                              116

                                            • Internation SEO question
                                              Nigel_Carr
                                              Nigel_Carr
                                              0
                                              4
                                              67

                                            • If I kill off the franchisee websites and create a corp SEO monster...will my Company's SEO suffer? Pros and Cons?
                                              MiriamEllis
                                              MiriamEllis
                                              0
                                              4
                                              82

                                            • Local SEO Mastermind Group?
                                              Mrupp44
                                              Mrupp44
                                              1
                                              3
                                              562

                                            • Is using emoji's in meta descriptions a good or bad idea ? - I haven't seen it used much hence my query
                                              PeteC12
                                              PeteC12
                                              0
                                              3
                                              1.4k

                                            • Local Seo Start Up?
                                              LindaBuquet
                                              LindaBuquet
                                              0
                                              6
                                              265

                                            • Local SEO?
                                              MiriamEllis
                                              MiriamEllis
                                              0
                                              7
                                              127

                                            Get started with Moz Pro!

                                            Unlock the power of advanced SEO tools and data-driven insights.

                                            Start my free trial
                                            Products
                                            • Moz Pro
                                            • Moz Local
                                            • Moz API
                                            • Moz Data
                                            • STAT
                                            • Product Updates
                                            Moz Solutions
                                            • SMB Solutions
                                            • Agency Solutions
                                            • Enterprise Solutions
                                            • Digital Marketers
                                            Free SEO Tools
                                            • Domain Authority Checker
                                            • Link Explorer
                                            • Keyword Explorer
                                            • Competitive Research
                                            • Brand Authority Checker
                                            • Local Citation Checker
                                            • MozBar Extension
                                            • MozCast
                                            Resources
                                            • Blog
                                            • SEO Learning Center
                                            • Help Hub
                                            • Beginner's Guide to SEO
                                            • How-to Guides
                                            • Moz Academy
                                            • API Docs
                                            About Moz
                                            • About
                                            • Team
                                            • Careers
                                            • Contact
                                            Why Moz
                                            • Case Studies
                                            • Testimonials
                                            Get Involved
                                            • Become an Affiliate
                                            • MozCon
                                            • Webinars
                                            • Practical Marketer Series
                                            • MozPod
                                            Connect with us

                                            Contact the Help team

                                            Join our newsletter
                                            Moz logo
                                            © 2021 - 2026 SEOMoz, Inc., a Ziff Davis company. All rights reserved. Moz is a registered trademark of SEOMoz, Inc.
                                            • Accessibility
                                            • Terms of Use
                                            • Privacy