Should the Title Tag and the H1 Tag not be the same or not anymore and can that be classed as over optimization?

[PeteC12]

Hi All,

I am just evaluating my title tags, H1,H2's etc and wondered in light of the google algorithm  changes over the last 12 months , we should look at more diversity as opposed to things possibly looking over optimized...

Originally (18 months ago) my Title tags considered of 2/3 keyword phrases , then I reduced this to my keyword phrase | Brand Name  but a majority of my H1's and H2's had the same keyword phrases. Historically this has served us very well and rankings for good but over the last 12 months, we were hit by panda, hummingbird etc...and which we are trying to recover from and from what I have read, the rules have changed with regards to good seo./ over optimized SEO.  We have been writting unique content , making more of our links branded etc to sort things out from that perspective but on the page stuff is just as important so I would like to get this right.

1. I am now thinking , that I may be getting penalized if my H1 and title's , H2 are the same ? and that they should be obviously related but different.

2. H2's again , need to be related but not the same as either of the above.

Is that how things should be these days ? from what I have read about this, most of the articles are not that recent so I don't what to do what is now redundant advice

Any advice greatly appreciated.

Thanks

Pete

[ColeLusby]

I'm open to correction from other Mozzers but I don't think you've been hit with a penalty because of your keyword optimization.

I would consider one thing - what is best for the user?

It may look like this (targeting Website Design):

Title Tag Keyword Phrase | Brand Name - For example: Website Designer - Seattle, Washington

H1 Keyword Phrase in a question form - Website Design Made Easy (followed by content)

H2 Keyword Phrase asking where it originated, etc. - Website Design Services and Pricing (followed by content)

Basically, provide relevant content. I wouldn't worry too much here; just slightly alter it so it's not exact match all the way down the page.

As far as a penalty, you may have been recently hit with the new panda update or the penguin update.

I hope this helps. Thanks, Cole.

[Linda-Vassily]

My CMS is set up such that the title of a page is automatically used for the h1 and the title tag. I usually don't edit this as it is useful to the user--the title of the page summarizes what the content is about. This information is useful in the serps, where you see it in the title tag, and on the page, where you see it in the h1. (You do also see the title tag once you are on the page, but it is kind of in the background, so not really redundant.) I would never use the same content in the h2 as in the h1 just because it would not create a good user experience-- having subsections with the exact same name as the title doesn't help the reader and could be confusing. If your pages are set up around keywords rather than users, then that is probably your problem. As Cole mentioned, consider what is best for the user.

[David-Kley]

Everyone talks about over-optimization of on-page content. If you are seeing a penalty, I highly doubt it is from something as simple as over-optimized H tags, unless you are just literally repeating the same things over and over across multiple pages.

Having the page title being the same as your H1 is fine, as long as it is well written, and highlighting what you are trying to rank for. We have even used our opening sentences as meta descriptions before. If the content is good, then you can use it wherever you like. Don't get so caught up in the finite details, that you overlook what is really causing your site not to rank / drop in rank. The rules of SEO have not really changed that much, except in the way that now Google looks much more closly at external factors to determine the rank and authority of a site. Read over what you have for your content. If it sounds spammy and unnatural, it probably is.

Without having a link, its hard to see what you have going on, or where your site could be improved. Based off of your description, this is the best answer I have.

[PeteC12]

Many thanks All. I will take your advice on board

thsnks

pete