Change 10yrs old home title tag seo safe?
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Howdy everyone! Wish you the best for 2012!
We have a client who is ranked #1 for keyword "blue widgets". Their site's homepage title has the keyword "blue widgets" in it and has been the same for 10yrs+.
Recently they have added other types of widgets to their offering.
Is it safe to change their title by adding more keywords to it? For example: "blue widgets | green widgets | brand x widgets".
May our client lose their ranking if we change their title?
Thanks in advance for your help!
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Yes they may well do, you dont want to look like you are keyword stuffing. Also I believe that a titile has a set amount of power, and have having many keywords dilutes the power of the title tag. Dont expect each keyword to get the same benifit as you would with one keyword.
As for the fact that it has been the same for 210 years does not matter, you can change and if it does not work out for you you can simply change it back.
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Thanks for your quick reply.
"Yes they may well do, you dont want to look like you are keyword stuffing. Also I believe that a titile has a set amount of power, and have having many keywords dilutes the power of the title tag. Dont expect each keyword to get the same benifit as you would with one keyword."
We don't plan to keyword stuff, the idea is to use 3 related core keywords in the title. At the moment there's several keywords in the title, and the site is ranking #1 for one of them.
"As for the fact that it has been the same for 210 years does not matter, you can change and if it does not work out for you you can simply change it back."
Our client is getting over 20k visitors a day for that keyword, hence the worries about changing the title. We cannot risk to experiment, even losing a few positions would equal great loss in sales.
What do you think?
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I would call this keyword stuffing
"blue widgets | green widgets | brand x widgets".
As for changing it, as i stated you can change it back, there will be no harm, except it may take a few weeks to get re crawled.
I would go with "Keyword relative to page content - Branding name"
The title should reflect page content to get maximum value, too many keywords you lose a value and may be seen as stuffing.
Google now replaces your title with the url if you stuff it. Many have come to this forum asking why they google has replaced their title in the serps, and each time it is too many keywords.
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What do you think?
If you are not confident about working on this site then I see a few possible routes... there are probably more
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give the client a refund and confess that you are uncomfortable with this job
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explain title tags to the client and how reaching for additional keywords could result in a rankings loss for the primary term but a possible rankings gain for the secondary term, then let the decision up to him
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attack the new keywords with new pages
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optimize the homepage with off-page methods
None of your replies mentions the strength of your competitors. Are they soundly beaten or are the threatening in their strength?
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running shoes and skate shoes | Shoe Shop is pretty much what you have mentioned above, and thats completely fine
if changeing your title tag breaks your business model, you have other problems
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3 and 4 all the way. There's a bunch of ways to peel a potato!
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"If you are not confident about working on this site then I see a few possible routes... there are probably more
1) give the client a refund and confess that you are uncomfortable with this job"
It's not that we're uncomfortable, it's that we want to know what the community think.
"2) explain title tags to the client and how reaching for additional keywords could result in a rankings loss for the primary term but a possible rankings gain for the secondary term, then let the decision up to him
3) attack the new keywords with new pages
4) optimize the homepage with off-page methods"
Great advice. Thanks.
"None of your replies mentions the strength of your competitors. Are they soundly beaten or are the threatening in their strength?"
Good question. They are really strong.
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That's right, I think that as long as you use 1-3 core, related keywords, it can't be considered stuffing...
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One of our client recently went through a complete site change and upgrade everything has changed and at first as the SEO I was apprehensive of the change. I was worried and in a similar boat to the opening of this thread but all ended well and as Alan mentioned you can always change it back if you find a major negative effect as a result of the change.
I think sometimes in seo you have to show you have a pair and go for it. You never know you might be pleasantly surprised which will give you confidence for further changes in the future.
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Alan and EGOL have shared some solid information but I have the sense you would like another viewpoint so I will share some thoughts.
Search Engine Optimization requires focus. You are competing with others for the #1 spot. The title tag is not only a ranking factor, it is offered a lot of weight. If your present title tag is "Blue Widgets" then 100% of that weight applies to that keyword. If you add two additional keywords to the title then you are de-optimizing (I think I made up a new word!) the page. You are taking a page which focuses a single keyword and dividing that focus amongst 3 keywords.
If you were to make that change, your page will then be less relevant to "blue widgets" and more relevant to "green widgets" and "brand x widgets". Your client may not only lose ranking, but if it is a competitive keyword, it's likely that you will lose ranking.
My recommendation is to focus a single keyword for each page of your website. It is fine to offer one or two minor variations such as "blue widgets", but you can't expect to rank # 1for a competitive term and target multiple different keywords.
A # 1 ranking is hugely important as statistically you receive 44% of the traffic for a given term. You should not be afraid to make any changes which improve the page's SEO. On the other hand, I would never make the change you are suggesting unless the client was 100% prepared to give up their # 1 ranking on their main term.
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I disagree with a focus on just 1 word for each page. It is very limiting in link building 3 to 4 variants will allow for a stronger page in my opinion.
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The wonderful thing about SEO is there are multiple approaches which all can lead to success. With respect to focusing multiple words on a page, I would challenge anyone to be able to provide a web page focusing multiple keywords in a competition versus the same page altered to only focus a single keyword.
If the goal is to rank #1 for a competitive keyword, a page focusing a single keyword should win the competition. Otherwise, even if you earn the #1 spot you are quite vulnerable to others taking your ranking.
If I provide a "blue widgets" page with the url as /blue-widgets, title as "blue widgets", header tag as "blue widgets" and the content as "Blue widgets are an incredibly helpful tool.....", how do you expect to compete if you target 3 keywords? You can't.
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I can show you a company who ranks #1 for multiple terms in SERP'S for Multiple keywords with the same title targeting only one or two phrases. All day long. Even though I do respect your opinion highly but I will take that challenge.
Good thread for sure going on! -
Hi Robbie,
I consider myself first and foremost a student of SEO. I am human, I make mistakes, and I enjoy learning. If you have a good example please share it. Try to choose an example which would be relevant to most webmasters. A NY Times article which has a DA of 100 and an incredibly high PA would not be ideal as 99% of websites do not have that kind of leverage.
Let's all learn together on this one.
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Hi Ryan,
I am a kindergarten SEO myself.
Ok, Search these terms in Google and you will see for almost any city you replace my city with in the search term and rentals.com ranks #1 almost every single time.
orlando rental properties
houses for rent in tampa
houses for rent in jacksonville
houses for rent in denver
atlanta rental homes
california homes for rentAs you will find out this site ranks #1 for almost any high ranking search term you can think of.
Even though for many of these terms the search phrase is not even on the page that ranks #1 ??
Switch around the terms all you want to not match the title tag and you will see this theory is not always true with big domains like this.I do realize the power of the domain but sometimes you just gotta say "Come on Man!" Really?
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Thanks for sharing some examples Robbie.
The first observation I would share is these examples all involve local SEO. The example the original poster shared did not involve local seo ( "blue widgets"). That changes things a lot. Local SEO eliminates most of the competition.
"rental properties" shows 2,240,000 monthly searches
"orlando rental properties" shows 18,100 monthly searches
Adding the local parameter eliminates over 99% of the competition. It's not the same at all. In addition, the 7 pack results dominate local search making the organic results much less meaningful. Even though Rentals.com site is the first organic listing, it shows after the 7 pack. There is strong evidence that users prefer the 7 pack results even when those results are lower then the top organic results. Without the 7 pack, the CTR of result #1 averages 44%. In this case I would bet the CTR is in the ballpark of 5%.
I would further add the first title keyword (which is offered the most weight) in each case is relevant to the search result. Also, several of the variants are relevant to the search result. Again, these examples are completely different then the original poster's query. "Blue Widgets, Green Widgets, Brand X Widgets" was the example. The examples for the keywords you presented are similar to "Blue Widgets, Widgets Blue, random word, Big Blue Widgets".
I appreciate what you are sharing but I still feel the original response I shared is accurate and it would be a large mistake to make the changes the original poster suggested.
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Ryan you are correct,
The main search is not localized for what the original post is. But even if you take out the local search it still is #1 or #2 for every search. Drives me crazy but you are accurate in your response. You ever have those days you think to yourself how can I get there? I am having on of those days LOL!
I would be more than willing for anyone to give me a complete site exam!
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I would be more than willing for anyone to give me a complete site exam!
The community is exceptionally helpful. May I suggest sharing your site URL in a new Q&A so as to keep this one on topic?
Keep in mind there are over 200 metrics involved with determining search engine ranking. I always recommend taking a holistic view of the majority of factors and not focusing too much on any one metric.
To use a medical analogy, there are some people who smoke and live to be 100. Life's unfair that way. But you know when your doctor advises you not to smoke, the advice is correct. You can point at the 100 year old smoker all you want, but it would not be wise to copy that behavior in an effort to live a longer life.
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Ryan,
Thanks for all the great info. Let me ask you this. Regarding the title, do you think it is better for local terms to be used? IE, using the example above, if have a site that manages rental properties in Orlando, do I want to still use "rental properties" as my main keyword and build content that uses Orlando, Orange County, etc. around that or would including the city or surrounding cities in the title be advantageous for a local business?
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