Can I have a strong brand category page and a strong product page?

[stephenfishman]

It seems Google base and other Comparison Shopping Engines like to see the brand in the product name.   But, on my category page for that brand, website optimizer tells me including the brand name with each product  is cannabilizes links.

For example; I have a page for jewelerABC with 20 pieces of jewelry listed as well as original content about jewelerABC.  I do not currently name these products as xyz by jewelerABC.  This page comes up nicely in the serps.

But in Google base The top listings for jewelry by jewelerABC seem to have  every product named xyz by jewelerABC  or JewelerABC xyzs.

What is the best way to optimize.for both?

Stephen

[scanlin]

You can really only optimize 1 page for 1 key phrase. Putting the brand in the phrase for every page is a mistake, IMO. Maybe optimize the home page for the brand name phrase, and each product page for just the product name, like this:

Home page: optimized for "BrandName"

product 1 page: optimized for "product name 1"

product 2 page: optimized for "product name 2"

If the brand is in the url that leads to the product page (ie www.brandname.com/product-name-1) then you will get some brand association for each product.

Trying to optimize product page 1 for "brandname product name 1" is too much use of brandname (IMHO).

The best strategy is to pick one succinct, unique phrase for each page and then optimize that page for just that phrase.

[Getz.pro]

Stephen, I see this all the time as well. and although most every other time I would agree with Mike on this one, it seems that people search jewelry by type + brand. Watches by Rolex or Rolex Watches.

Not only do people search this way, if they do not see the brand in the title, they may move on as they don't want just watches, but watches by Rolex.

With that said, if your pages are SERPing well for your keywords and are generating traffic, then I see no reason to change what you are doing.

Depending on your CMS you might have the text Watches by Rolex and have two links, one on watches leading to that page and one on Rolex leading to the category page.

I would still title the page XYZ Watch by Rolex as the brand is important.

I hope that helps

[stephenfishman]

Thank you both for the replies.  Following the Rolex example.  I have a page for Rolex Watches.  On that page I have 18 watches shown.  My CMS (shopping cart) uses the product name as anchor text. This anchor text links to a  specific Rolex watch product page.

I name the watches like this: "18 K gold band & diamonds"," gold & silver men's watch"," gold & silver women's watch", etc.  The product page will have a title with both product name | and Brand.  The problem is the comparison shopping engines.

The CSE,s  seem to give weight to products named like this:"Rolex 18 k gold band & diamonds", "Rolex gold & silver men's watch", etc.  I am still confused about naming these products to show their differences on the category (Brand) page and still optimize for the comparison shopping engines.

Isn't this an issue for any site with multiple brands and product categories.?

I really appreciate your inputs.

Stephen

[Getz.pro]

Brand Page

<title>Rolex Watches</title>

18K Gold Band & Diamonds

Gold and Silver Men's Watch

Gold and Silver Woman's Watch

OR

Rolex 18K Gold Band & Diamonds

Rolex Gold and Silver Men's Watch

Rolex Gold and Silver Woman's Watch

Product Page

<title>Rolex Gold and Silver Woman's Watch | Rolex Watches</title>

If I have this correctly, your concern is the second title on the product page listing Rolex Watches twice vs. once if you leave off the Rolex prefix. And the fact that you get yelled at for having a link with Rolex pointing out of the Rolex brand page. Which is cannibalizing the link as you are sending anchor text out with the same keyword as you are targeting on the page.

This depends on if people are searching by brand or category. Gold Watch vs. Rolex Watches.

If you are selling more generic jewelry, then perhaps the brand is not as important. Also, if you are getting more traffic organically through SEs, or through CSEs? If 80% of the traffic is through CSEs then I would adhere to their way of doing things to rank better on them.

I would be more concerned with proper Page Title for rankings on your CSEs than cannibalization.

Two things to remember:

1. Always build inbound links to the brand page to reinforce keywords for that brand.
2. When a product is deleted, 301 that page back to the brand page. Again, reinforcing the keywords for that page as I am sure you will have some links coming into the product page.

I hope this helps

[stephenfishman]

Yes, Richard, that is very helpful.

My traffic comes mostly from organic searches.  So what I am taking away from this is to keep my focus on SERP s unless CSE results become more important.

And thank you for the reminder about 301ing deleted products.  It's one of those things that I hate doing, though I know I should.

Best wishes

Stephen

[Getz.pro]

I don't know if your CMS allows this (which I doubt and why I don't like most of them), but if you can inject your own code into the header, you can test the product page against the database, and if false, do a header redirect to the brand page while including a 301.

The question I have is, from what is your Title tag generated? It sounds like the linking text, which is odd. I would think if anything it is either pulled from a database or from a URL parameter.