Competitior 'scraped' entire site - pretty much - what to do?
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What does the C & D letter say? What is the threat? All the subsequent steps? Or do you just keep it vague and menacing (eg. "any and all remedies, including legal remedies")
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It is a formal legal notification sent to the company involved. I perform research of the site information, contact information and domain registration information to determine the proper party involved. I also send the C&D via registered mail with proof of delivery. After the document has been delivered, I also sent the document to the site's "Contact Us" address. I take every step reasonably possible to ensure the document is received by the right party within the company, and I can document the date/time of receipt.
The letter provides the following:
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identifies the company which owns the copyrighted or trademarked material
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offers a means to contact the copyright and trademark owner
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identifies the copyright / trademark owner has become aware of the infringement
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provides proof of ownership such as the copyright number, trademark number, etc.
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identifies the location of the infringing content
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identifies my client has suffered harm as a result of the infringement. "Harm" can range from direct damages such as decreased sales, decreased website traffic, etc. or potential damage such as confusion in the marketplace.
Once the above points are established, the Cease and Desist demand is made.I also provide a follow up date by which the corrective action needs to be completed. Finally the specific next steps are covered with the following statement:
"This contact represents our goodwill effort to resolve this matter quickly and decisively. If further action is required please be advised of statute 15 U.S.C. 1117(a), sets out the remedies available to the prevailing party in trademark infringement cases. They are: (1) defendant’s profits, (2) any damages sustained by the plaintiff, (3) the costs of the action, and (4) in exceptional cases, reasonable attorney’s fees."
There are a couple additional legal stipulations added as required by US law. The C&D is then signed, dated and delivered.
This letter works in a high percentage of cases. When it fails, a slightly modified version is sent to the web host. If that fails, then the next recourse is requesting Google directly to remove the site or content from their index.
If all fails, you can sue the offending company. If you do go to court, the fact you went through the above process and did everything possible to avoid court action will clearly benefit your case. I have never gone to that last step and I am not an attorney but perhaps Sarah can comment further?
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Thanks. Very helpful.
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I love the idea, but there are two concerns I have about this approach. In order for this to work, the company has to be known. Usually known companies don't participate in content scraping.
Also, if you do launch a successful public shaming campaign, you could possibly open yourself up to legal damages. I know you are thinking "What? They stole from me!" You are taking action with the express purpose of harming another business. You need to be extremely careful.
There have been multiple court cases where a robber successfully sued a home or business owner when they were injured during a robbery. Of course we can agree that sounds insane, but it has really happened and this situation is much more transparent. The other company can claim you stole the content from them, and then you smeared the company. I can personally civil court cases are not set up so the good guy always wins or for principles to be upheld. Each side makes a legal case, the costs can quickly run into tens of thousands of dollars, and the side with the most money will often win. Be very careful before taking this approach.
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I agree you have to be very careful.
I am only suggesting this approach might be considered in certain circumstances.
Public shaming is an intermediate step somewhere between sending a friendly note, a C&D letter, and suing, provided:
- the other company's identity is known
- the other company cares about its reputation
I am not a lawyer. Nor do I play one on the Internet.
The other company might claim "tortious interference" in its business. (That was the claim against CBS in the tobacco case.) But it's a stretch. A truthful story in a mainstream media outlet poses little risk, IMHO. Any competent attorney could make the case that the purpose of the story was to inform the public. As for libel, you have to prove "actual malice" or "regardless disregard for the truth" an almost impossible standard to meet of proving your were lying and knew you were lying.
But who wants to go to court? One company I worked for had copyright infringement issues. Enthusiastic fans were using the name and logo without consent. A friendly email was usually all it took for them to either cease and desist or become official affiliates.
But these were basically good people who infringed out of ignorance.
It's different if you're dealing with dirtbags.
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I guess the use of bot-response.php and bot-response.gif is the gentle internet version of a public shaming campaign.
Sometimes it's a matter of picking your battles, but engineering enough of a win to make your client feel better without launching into an all-out war that could end up costing way more than you're willing to pay.:)
Sha
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I love the idea if we can figure out a way to get it to work. It would require someone stealing your code, you discovering the theft, putting the steps in place and then the bad site coming back for more.
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Love it!
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Hi Ryan,
In this case Greg already knows the site has been scraped and duplicated. Blocking the scraper and serving the image via the bot-response php script is simply a "gift" to the duplicate site if they return to update their stolen content as they often do.
It is entirely possible to put the solution in place for well known scrapers such as Pagegrabber etc, but there are thousands of them, the people using them can easily change the name when they have been outed and anyone can write their own.
I understand that everyone wants a "list", but even if you Google "user agent blacklist" and find one, there will be problems. Adding thousands of rules to your .htaccess will eventually cause processing issues, the list will constantly be out of date etc.
As I explained at the outset, the key is to be aware of what is happening on your server and respond where necessary. Unfortunately, this is not a "set and forget" issue. In my experience though, bots will likely be visible in your logs long before they have scraped your entire site.
Sha
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Well darn, so there is no easy way out! I think this is a fantastic opportunity for you. You can create Sha Enterprises and offer an anti-bot copyright protection program which would protect sites.
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Hi All,
To follow up on Ryan's last post "offer an anti-bot copyright protection program ", that is exactly what we have created at Distil. We are the the first turnkey cloud solution that safeguards your revenue and reputation by protecting your web content from bots, data mining, and other malicious traffic.
I do not mean to shamelessly advertise but it seems relevant to mention our service. If anyone is interested in testing the solution please feel free to message me and I will be happy to extend a no obligation 30 day trial.
Rami Founder, CEO
www.distil.it -
hmmm...I like to pick my battles.
Scumbags are scumbags and will always find a way to win in the short term.
I like to live by two things my grandma taught me a long time ago...
"What goes around comes around" and "revenge is a dish best served cold"
As to there being an easy way out - you're an SEO Ryan! You know the deal.
Sha
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Thanks. Rami:
Your solution and offer are fascinating. And no worries about the shameless plug pitfall.
The issue for me is clients who may not quite fit into the category of being victims of the scraping/complete sleaze bag racket.
Rather. they are industry leaders who are often victimized by leading content farms (and you know who I mean!) Some poor schmuck gets 15 bucks spending 15 minutes lifting our content without attribution or links by paraphrases it..
Ironically, said content farms claim to have turned over a new leaf, hired reputable journalists as so-called "editors-in-chief" and now want to "partner" with our leading SMEs.
As they used to say in 19th century Russian novels "What is to be done?"
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Hi Rami.
Sharing information about a relevant and useful service isn't advertising, it's educational and informative. You could have used a random name and mentioned the service, but you shared the information in a transparent, quality manner and I for one appreciate it.
I believe your signature is missing a character and you meant to use www.distil.it.
After reading about your product, I have some follow up questions. I can send the questions to your privately, but I think others would benefit from the responses so I will ask here if it is ok. I would humbly suggest adding this information to your site where appropriate or possibly in a FAQ section. If the information is already on your site and I missed it, I apologize.
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It sounds like your solution offers cloud hosting. Is that correct? If so, is your hosting complete? In other words, do I maintain my regular web host or is your service in addition to my regular host?
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It sounds like your Cloud Acceleration service is a CDN. Is that correct? Is this service an extra cost on top of the costs listed on your pricing page?
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The Enterprise solution offers "Custom Security Algorithms". Can you share more details about what is involved?
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Would it be fair to say your service handles 100% of security settings?
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You mentioned caching, compression and minification. Would it be fair to say your service handles 100% of optimization settings? Along these lines, is your solution offered in such a manner to where your results are recognized by PageSpeed and YSlow? I always value results over any tool, but some clients latch onto certain tools and it would offer additional value if the tools recognized the results.
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While your site ccTLD is .it, your contact number listed on your home page appears in the San Francisco area. Are you a US-based company?
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You mention "the best support in the industry". For your regular (i.e. non-premium
) users, if a non-technical client requested basic changes such as to direct URLs which did not end in a slash to the equivalent URL which did end in a slash throughout their site, do you make these changes for them? How far are you able to assist customers? (I know it's a dangerous question to answer on some levels for you, but inquiring minds would like to know). -
I did not notice any pricing related to space on disk. I have a client who provides many self-hosted videos and the site is 30 GB. Are there any pricing or other issues related to the physical size of a site?
Your solution intrigues me because it addresses a wide array of hosting issues ranging from site speed to security to content scraping. I am anxious to learn more.
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Hi Ryan,
Thanks for catching my typo and your interest. I am happy to answer your questions publicly and will definitely add your questions to the FAQ section we are currently working on.
The company is at distil.it and yes we are an american company located in San Fran despite the Italian TLD.
We do not host your files permanently on our servers, instead our service is layered on top of a standard host. We do however cache your content on our edge nodes exactly like a CDN to accelerate your site. This feature is already included in the pricing model.
With the enterprise plan we will work with clients to responde to specific threats that an organization may face. This could mean blocking certain countries from accessing your site, blocking certain IP ranges, or dealing with DoS attacks.
Although we can respond to most security concerns, there are still some security threats outside our scope.
Our page optimization and acceleration techniques are recognized by Pagespeed and YSlow and the results are measurable. With one case study we improved our customer's page load time by 55%. There are still other optimization tricks that we do not handle such as combining images into CSS sprites, or setting browser caching.
We try to accomodate our customers the best we can. Basic redirects like the one you mention would not be hard and we would happily do this for regular customer within reason.
Pricing for the service is based on bandwidth used and there is no extra cost for storage.For your specific scenario though we may not be a complete solution since our service is not currently optimized for video delivery.
Please feel free to ask any additional questions, we are happy to answer and help!
Rami
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Thank you for the additional details Rami. If you are willing to share further information, I do have a few follow up questions.
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Do you serve 100% of the content to users? Or do users still visit the site? I am interested to understand how dynamic content would be affected. Will location based content where information changes based on a user's IP still function properly or is there likely to be issues? Will "fresh" content still function properly such as a new blog article which is receiving many comments, or a forum discussion.
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Since you are caching the target site, how much does the target site's speed optimization still play? If a client's site is on a shared server vs a dedicated server, would it still be a concern for speed?
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You mentioned dealing with security concerns. Are your actions taken proactively? Or does a client need to recognize there is an issue and contact your company?
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Specific to the original question asked in this Q&A, can some bots get past your system? Or do you believe it to be bot-proof? I am specifically referring to bad bots, not those of major search engines.
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How would Google Analytics and other tools which monitor site traffic be impacted by your service? I am trying to determine if your service is "normal" cloud service or if there are differences.
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What differences are there between the services you offer and the regular Amazon cloud service?
Thanks again for your time.
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Greg,
There is only one thing that helps you to move forward with your client. Rewrite your texts and upgrade or tweak you site to better UX. That way the scraped site will look like cheap copy. Have done that in past. I know it's not fair but thats how you can put this behind you.
PS. Rapid linkbuilding to forums and blogs will get one banned
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Hi Ryan,
As long as others are benefiting and not bothered I am happy to answer your questions.
When setting up Distil you are able to allocate a specific record (subdomain) or the entire zone (domain) to be delivered through our cloud. This allows you to segregate what traffic you would like us to serve and what content you would like to handle through other delivery mechanisms. Distil honors all no cache and cache control directives allowing you to easily customize what content we cache even if we are serving your entire site. Additioanlly we do not cache any dynamic file types ensuring that fresh content always functions properly. Location based content will continue to function correctly because our service continues to pass the end user's IP through the host headers.
Clients are able to reduce their infrastructure after migrating onto our platform however it is important to note that you cannot downgrade to a $5 shared hosting and expect the same results. Distil is able to reduce your server load by 50%-70% but the remaining 30%-50% will still be handled by your backend so you need ensure any hosting you use can still handle that.
Our specialty is dealing with bots and all of our security measures surrounding that protection are automated. Any security concerns outside of that scope will be handled reactively with each individual client.
Our service is constantly adapting to ensure that we provide a holistic solution and we go far beyond the suggestions mentioned above. Distil is set up to adapt intelligently on its own as it uncovers new bots and we also are always adding new algorithms to catch bots. I do not want to say we are bot proof but we will catch well over 95% of bots and will quickly adapt to catch and stop any new derivates.
Similar to most other cloud or CDN type services Google Analytics will not be impacted at all.
Amazon offers cloud computing where as Distil offers a managed security solution in the cloud. We utilize several cloud providers, including Amazon, for our infrastructure but what makes Distil unique is the software running on that infrastructure. Amazon simply provides the computing power, we provide the intelligence to catch and stop malicious bots from scraping your website and ensure your content is protected.
Rami Essaid
www.distil.it -
Thanks for all the details Rami.
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Hi again Greg,
Just one more option that is available to you if you happen to have a Wordpress blog on the site (or have the option of rebuilding the entire site using Wordpress).
You could install the Bad Behavior plugin for Wordpress. The plugin is part of Project Honeypot, which tracks millions of bad ip addresses and gathers information from the plugin and feeds it back to the honeypot. Bad Behavior also works against link spam, email and content harvesters and other malicious sites.
Sha
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